Minimum Wage Increase?[views:24539][posts:74]________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 10:12pm - anon ""] Dumbass. My salary IS part bonus. Without bonus, I'd make about 8000 less a year. The idea of bonus incentive it that you control expenses, which is part of the job in the first place. It's not like I can walk into work in the morning and say "fuckit, I'm just gonna throw an extra 100 hours on the schedule". I don't get down on someone who has had hard luck, or needs a job. I do get down on schmucks who want to take an entry level disposable labor job and expect a living wage. I got dozens of people who work from me at entry level that complain about low wages. Then a few of them are smart, work their asses off and become a shift manager. What does it require? Commitment. Thats it. No further education, nothing. Anyone is free to do it. And the shift managers, that complain about not making enough? My company and many others will hand pretty much anyone a manager's job just for having unlimited availability and a pulse. In some cases, maybe a high school diploma. People that say they're trying to live off minimum wage have no excuses. Raising the minimum wage only helps the assholes that want to go wage fishing and jump from company to company, entry level to entry level. That, or unmotivated assbags who want to be a fry cook for 30 years, and just keep getting raises, and raises, and raises. |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 10:14pm - diamond_dave ""] awol said:http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/10/minimum.wage.ap/index.html wtf, does anyone else realize that this just fucks up the economy? Raise minimum wage and the cost of everything goes up, thereby nullifying the temporary benefit that the minimum wage earners gained and ultimately just crippling the US dollar. raising minimum wage will not raise the cost of living. it WILL raise wages across the board in lower income brackets, which is good. low-wage earners do not have enough buying power (even with a raise) to affect things such as the price of cars, houses, rents, etc. they are just barely scraping by as it is. some people work minimum wage or entry level jobs because it's all they are able to do, or because they enjoy it. it doesn't mean that they are not contributing to society, and it doesn't mean that they shouldn't enjoy the same quality of life as anyone else. raising minimum wage means that rich people have to share with the people who do their work and make their opulent lives possible. i'm ok with that. p.s. ANON-- if your company has enough money to give you a bonus, they SHOULD be sharing the wealth with everyone (i.e. raising wages). not giving bonuses to people like you who only help to perpetuate socioenconomic divide. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 10:20pm - anon ""] Thats some good socialist bullshit, dave. However, this is a capitalist society, and in fact low wage earners ARE less entitled to the same quality of life. You wanna share the wealth evenly? Get outta here. Secondly, you also do not grasp the concept of bonus incentive. It's not a BONUS, like Oh hey, I set the high score. I get an extra $1000. It's a bonus incentive. They pay you say $2000 a month. $1500 salary, and a potential for $500 bonus. Then, they give you budgets, sales goals, and tell you to hit them. If you do, you get the $500. If you don't, and you don't CONSISTENTLY, you lose your job. It's not EXTRA money for going above and beyond. It's more like money they take AWAY from you when you don't live up to their expectations. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 10:22pm - anon ""] And again, it's not like I'm special and some big high grand poobah at my work. Any single person here could walk into my company off the street with unlimited availability and a high school diploma and have my job. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 11:01pm - sxealex ""] the_reverend said:alex, way to be a couple days behind. ??? the thing was there today... i just noticed it? hmmm? |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 11:12pm - diamond_dave ""] anon, i understand what you're saying about the incentive. i don't disagree with it as a concept, just in that particular situation. rewards for exceptional performance are good. if you're doing your job just as well for less pay, that sucks. i understand your discontent. but you know, that's part of capitalism too. your boss doesn't care about you, he cares about himself. this statement doesn't make sense to me though, maybe i'm slow, but i'd like to hear why you think some people's contributions are worth more than others'. anon said: However, this is a capitalist society, and in fact low wage earners ARE less entitled to the same quality of life. and it hasn't always been a capitalist society. and the class divide wasn't always this extreme. when this country was founded almost all of us were poor. we have survived this far as a captialist machine, but i don't think it'll last too much longer before those on the 'bottom' get fed up enough with those on the 'top' to make a real change. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 11:18pm - RichHorror ""] sxealex said:the_reverend said:alex, way to be a couple days behind. ??? the thing was there today... i just noticed it? hmmm? Just punch Aaron in the face. He's gotten too uppity. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 10,2007 11:36pm - yummy ""] Honestly, I don't think it's going to make any difference with minimum wage going up. Shit will continue to get more and more expensive. Maximum wage baby! |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 8:50am - Josh_Martin ""] anon said:Dumbass. My salary IS part bonus. Without bonus, I'd make about 8000 less a year. The idea of bonus incentive it that you control expenses, which is part of the job in the first place. It's not like I can walk into work in the morning and say "fuckit, I'm just gonna throw an extra 100 hours on the schedule". I don't get down on someone who has had hard luck, or needs a job. I do get down on schmucks who want to take an entry level disposable labor job and expect a living wage. I got dozens of people who work from me at entry level that complain about low wages. Then a few of them are smart, work their asses off and become a shift manager. What does it require? Commitment. Thats it. No further education, nothing. Anyone is free to do it. And the shift managers, that complain about not making enough? My company and many others will hand pretty much anyone a manager's job just for having unlimited availability and a pulse. In some cases, maybe a high school diploma. People that say they're trying to live off minimum wage have no excuses. Raising the minimum wage only helps the assholes that want to go wage fishing and jump from company to company, entry level to entry level. That, or unmotivated assbags who want to be a fry cook for 30 years, and just keep getting raises, and raises, and raises. Dumbass, you are mad at the wrong people. Instead of blaming people trying not to starve on $7/hr you should be pissed at your asshole bosses who screwed you over by setting your goals BEFORE the wage increase went through that they damn well knew was coming. Your boss fucked you over, not Jose the frycook. Dumbass. |
| ______________________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 9:27am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] Adam Smith said:A man must always live by his work, and his wages must at least be sufficient to maintain him. They must even upon most occasions be somewhat more; otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family, and the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation. Mr. Cantillon seems, upon this account, to suppose that the lowest species of common labourers must every where earn at least double their own maintenance, in order that one with another they may be enabled to bring up two children; the labour of the wife, on account of her necessary attendance on the children, being supposed no more than sufficient to provide for herself.*14 But one-half the children born, it is computed, die before the age of manhood.*15 The poorest labourers, therefore, according to this account, must, one with another, attempt to rear at least four children, in order that two may have an equal chance of living to that age. But the necessary maintenance of four children, it is supposed, may be nearly equal to that of one man. The labour of an able-bodied slave, the same author adds, is computed to be worth double his maintenance; and that of the meanest labourer, he thinks, cannot be worth less than that of an able-bodied slave. Thus far at least seems certain, that, in order to bring up a family, the labour of the husband and wife together must, even in the lowest species of common labour, be able to earn something more than what is precisely necessary for their own maintenance; but in what proportion, whether in that above mentioned, or in any other, I shall not take upon me to determine.*16 |
| _______________________________ [Jan 11,2007 9:27am - aeser ""] it's funny to see people think this means prices of things need to go up, like anything is actually made in this country anymore. minimum wage should be $14 an hour, $20 in the city. it's totally unreflective of the actual cost of living and always has been. if you make minimum wage you need roommates here. probably a lot of them. like in china. only china is actually doing better now. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 10:06am - yummy ""] Oh no, you're right. Gas hasn't gone up at all. I was serious about maximum wage. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 10:11am - sxealex ""] RichHorror said:sxealex said:the_reverend said:alex, way to be a couple days behind. ??? the thing was there today... i just noticed it? hmmm? Just punch Aaron in the face. He's gotten too uppity. your sucker punch has been shipped order confirmation # [img] |
| ______________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 10:39am - HailAtWork ""] You really do have to make at least $15/hour to live in MA...I had to move into RI because of it. The whole system blows, jobs and bosses are so unnessesary...so are most taxes. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 11:16am - FuckIsMySignature ""] work more than one job. thats hows it done people. |
| ______________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 11:27am - HailAtWork ""] Screw that, my objective is to work the least possible # of hours to survive comfortably, I'd rather spend my short amount of time on this planet doing things that are meaningful to me instead of working hard so someone else can be wealthy. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 11:32am - FuckIsMySignature ""] sounds like you need a career in politics then |
| _____________________________ [Jan 11,2007 1:16pm - pam ""] Taxes are necessary. People that bitch about taxes are idiots. I like having a police and fire dept., I like having garbage men take my trash to the dump, I like having my mail delivered, my community college funded, etc. Fuck- The point is you shouldn't have to work two jobs to live. ALL wages should rise with inflation. If the government wants to save a buck they should take it out of the pockets of big corporations and not the people busting their ass to feed themselves. Of course, realistically that will never, ever happen. Joe CEO will continue to shit on a gold-plated toiled seat while the rest of us live paycheck-to-paycheck. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 11,2007 1:42pm - Josh_Martin ""] anon said:Since we're discussing living wages, I'll gladly explain for you all with a REAL example of where the money for wage increases comes from: In MA, as of the first, minimum wages were raised from $6.75 to $7.50. Where does that money come from? Well, as a salaried manager, part of my own income is derived from bonuses. If I control my labor expenditures within budget or below, I receive a bonus at the end of the fiscal quarter. It's not difficult to do, as budgets are based off of how many hours your location uses on average, and I've almost ALWAYS received this bonus. Well this year, they put out the budgets BEFORE the wage increase. That means I'm expected to hit the SAME labor dollars as before, but still pay a HIGHER wage. What does that mean? It means I will not be getting a bonus for at LEAST the next year. You guys keep debating if this is right or wrong. All I know is, I'm going to be scraping by more than ever to pay my MORTGAGE, PROPERTY TAXES, and UTILITIES while some douchebag teenage high school kids just got a nice little bump in their living wages. Glad I can make their life at home on mom and dad's tab a little easier. I just read this again and are you seriously expecting ANYONE to feel sorry for you? You just said that the less money you pay out to your workers, the bigger your bonus is. So, basically, you live off of holding out on raises and paying shit wages. I hope your house gets forclosed on, middle management scum. Some time seeing how the other side lives would do you some good. Because, it's only teenagers who work shit jobs. That is total reality right there. Oh well, at least your bosses seem to be fucking you as bad as you fuck your workers. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 12,2007 10:33pm - yummy ""] how do you like them apples? |
| ___________________________________________ [Jan 12,2007 10:50pm - davefromthegrave ""] yummy said:how do you like them apples? well they're not as good as your mother's pussy, but they aren't bad. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jan 12,2007 11:30pm - davefromthegrave ""] Josh_Martin said:anon said:Since we're discussing living wages, I'll gladly explain for you all with a REAL example of where the money for wage increases comes from: In MA, as of the first, minimum wages were raised from $6.75 to $7.50. Where does that money come from? Well, as a salaried manager, part of my own income is derived from bonuses. If I control my labor expenditures within budget or below, I receive a bonus at the end of the fiscal quarter. It's not difficult to do, as budgets are based off of how many hours your location uses on average, and I've almost ALWAYS received this bonus. Well this year, they put out the budgets BEFORE the wage increase. That means I'm expected to hit the SAME labor dollars as before, but still pay a HIGHER wage. What does that mean? It means I will not be getting a bonus for at LEAST the next year. You guys keep debating if this is right or wrong. All I know is, I'm going to be scraping by more than ever to pay my MORTGAGE, PROPERTY TAXES, and UTILITIES while some douchebag teenage high school kids just got a nice little bump in their living wages. Glad I can make their life at home on mom and dad's tab a little easier. I just read this again and are you seriously expecting ANYONE to feel sorry for you? You just said that the less money you pay out to your workers, the bigger your bonus is. So, basically, you live off of holding out on raises and paying shit wages. I hope your house gets forclosed on, middle management scum. Some time seeing how the other side lives would do you some good. Because, it's only teenagers who work shit jobs. That is total reality right there. Oh well, at least your bosses seem to be fucking you as bad as you fuck your workers. It'll be great when all the kids who are only working under him to get through college become his bosses. |
| _______________________________ [Jan 13,2007 3:39am - anon ""] Josh_Martin said: I just read this again and are you seriously expecting ANYONE to feel sorry for you? You just said that the less money you pay out to your workers, the bigger your bonus is. Good job reading. Now try again, and this time go for comprehension too. Or is that asking a little too much of you? I don't rake in huge bonuses from stiffing kids on wages. I receive the "bonus" portion of my salary for meeting budget expectations, where if I DON'T meet my budgets I will most likely lose my job. Any retail management position you find usually pays the same way. You hear the word "bonus", and immediately draw conclusions that are way off base. And again, the example I gave is to show WHERE the money for wage increases is going to come from. Most companies are paying out MILLIONS of dollars in wage increases due to the minimum wage increase. They're going to cut that money anywhere they can find, especially by taking it out of the people who are making MORE than minimum wage. I already explained, theres advanced opportunities for anyone who wants to step up to higher position to make more money. Anyone who works for me that wants more money ALWAYS has that option, and I've always encouraged it. In fact, in the week since the wage increase, I've just pushed 3 kids through for additional raises, because they were already making 7.50 after years of busting ass and getting small raises here and there, and now they were making the same amount as kids who'd just been hired off the street. It's not that I am screwing people out of money, it's quite the opposite. Before, I'd be paying a kid off the street working his first job ever for a little extra spending money in high school 6.75, and that kid working 35 hours a week on top of going to college and trying to scrape up a little savings would get the most I could get them, 8 or 9 dollars, whatever. Now, no matter the circumstances, I'm budgeted to a point that they're both gonna get stuck with 7.50. And before you get all pissed at the evil corporate entities screwing people out of money, we're talking about millions of dollars in increased labor costs. If you were the business owner yourself, you'd probably end up having to close your doors, or layoff a lot of good hard working people. But good for you, Josh! Good of you to hope my house gets foreclosed on. I guess that also means you're happy about the college kids that won't be getting the raises they deserve this year. You're probably happy for the people that will now be stuck working twice as hard, because I'm left with fewer people to cover the schedule due to budget cuts. Most likely you relish that your friends and family working for my company are all affected by this, one way or another. Not just my company, but many others as well. You go Josh! Stick it to the man! |
| _______________________________ [Jan 13,2007 3:51am - anon ""] davefromthegrave said: It'll be great when all the kids who are only working under him to get through college become his bosses. Good you should mention that scenario, dave. As a matter of fact, one kid in particular who worked for me a few years ago just finished college, and was hired into our corporate marketing department making a lot more money than me and in a much higher position than me. He was in my store today, and mentioned how I used to bust his balls and tell him he should cut back his hours and concentrate on school when he was fresh out of high school and more interested in partying than getting good grades. At one point he was considering dropping out of school and entering the management program at work so he could make more money. I told him it was a bad idea, and that he should finish school. Sure, he's my boss now. However, he treats me with nothing but respect, because I've never treated him with anything but the same. I encourage ALL my employees to work hard and go to school when they can. Those who can't, I've been known to go out of my way to get them raises, promotions, or anything else I can do improve the quality of their life. The point I made was pretty clear and you and Josh just seem to stupid to get it. The kids working for me will always be a priority. They will get their raises, and I will always pay them the best I can. The point was, after the minimum wage increase my ability to do so for them has now taken money out of my OWN pay. But yeah, I'M the bad guy here, right? |
| _______________________________ [Jan 13,2007 9:46am - yummy ""] umm...yeah. |