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you are quoting a heck of a lot there.
[QUOTE]blah blah blah[/QUOTE] to reply to MarkFuckingRichards.
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[QUOTE="MarkFuckingRichards:149265"]i agree that there a lot of "hardcore" bands these days that aren't exactly the hardcore you speak of. granted, those bands are definitely hardcore, and all damn good ones at that (minus bane, can't stand em, but that's beside the point...), but the times have changed, and bands have changed with it. these days, there are a million sub genres/classifications since the sound of hardcore has changed so much. same goes with metal. back when hardcore was started, it was all just hardcore. plain and simple. when metal started to solidify, it was just metal. but since both styles have been around for decades now, there have been many changes. now there's old school hardcore, new school hardcore as a broad term, brutal hardcore, emotional hardcore, metallic hardcore, etc. and with metal, you've got thrash, old school death metal, brutal death, progressive metal, power metal, black metal, melodic metal, etc etc. then there are styles that have been adopted from mixing genres together (not just hardcore and metal), to make such styles as grind and metalcore. as far as unearth and killswitch go, i can see the reasoning in placing them in the metal category. i believe both bands have straightforward and underlying elements/influences of hardcore and metal alike, thus why i would call them metalcore. they may not have elements of the hardcore stylings we know of that started it all, but as far as what's going on today in music, both bands have elements of metal and hardcore. unearth have a shitload of breakdowns, most of which stem from hardcore. granted, metal probably used more slam riffs than hardcore in the beginning, whether moshy or not, but there is definitely a difference between a metal slam and a hardcore breakdown. the vocals, as you mentioned are way more hardcore oriented in unearth. in fact, i don't think there is any variation at all in the vocals. most of the music is metal oriented, i will admit, but not enough for me to consider them full on metal. killswitch engage's vocals are also hardcore oriented most of the time as you mentioned, with very little metal vocal stylings mixed in. the clean singing can be found more in metal i suppose rather than hardcore. the drums are very "gallop" oriented most of the time, a style used both in metal and hardcore, but this leans more in the hardcore direction for me. i don't blame anyone for calling unearth or killswitch engage metal, but i'm just saying that to my ears, they sound more like the metalcore category. maybe if the metalcore genre wasn't looked down upon so much as the bastard son of metal and hardcore, we'd all be a little bit easier on ourselves when it comes to this sort of debate. again, i will say that there is no possible way shadows fall is metalcore...i hate to beat a dead horse, but whatever. i'm bored and need to kill some time. also, i'll note that a shitload of the originators of hardcore,and many other notable hardcore acts, have said that hardcore is all about what you want to do and what is true to you, not necessarily a guideline on how the music should sound. one band that you listed, sheer terror, stated that they never wanted to make the same album over and over again, like most old school (and newer as well) hardcore acts did. they incorporated many elements outside of the hardcore genre, thus openning up new doorways to other hardcore bands. this showed the "hardcore community" or whatever you want to call it that there were more opportunities, so many other bands started incorporating foreign elements into hardcore. so from the old school hardcore you speak of, bands like earth crisis and madball arose, and now bands like full blown chaos, etc. to me, none of those bands sound the same but do fit into the hardcore category. there may be a lot of bands that call themselves hardcore and don't deserve to call themselves that because of their beliefs, sound, etc., but there are still a lot that can safely fit under the hardcore moniker, without having to sound like all the old bands that started hardcore. damn, that was too long. check plus to anyone who actually reads this all the way through.[/QUOTE]
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