China cymbals...[views:11217][posts:44]__________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 11:51am - darkwor ""] I need a big, washy china cymbal with a lot of sustain, and WON'T BREAK AFTER 2 WEEKS. I have had awful luck with every china I've had (I've lost count), they've all been cheap to mid-range chinas of all different types, brands, and conditions. And yes, I unapologetically beat the absolute shit out of my cymbals. I've had good experiences with Sabian AAX crashes and my Sabian B8 Pro heavy ride as far as durability goes, but that's about it. Any drummers (or anybody that has ever heard good china cymbals) with suggestions? I'm willing to drop money for something that will last. Probably going to get one off ebay or something. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:01pm - niccolai ""] Wuhan chinas are really soft... alot of people say it makes them easy to break. in my experience though, the softness makes them absoarb impact better. they are dirt cheap, and the 18 inch chinas sound great. I had 4 wuhan chinas on my kit and never broke one. the position of the cymbal and the way it's screwed to your kit make a difference also. and maybe refine your technique? chinas are very loud. you shouldnt need to hit it so hard that you crack it to get the volume you're after. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:03pm - niccolai ""] try these cymbal springs. they absoarb some of the blow from your stick hits so as not to damage the cymbal: [img] |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:04pm - niccolai ""] also, most cymbals have at least a year warranty on cracking. if you're breaking one every two weeks and then buying a new one, you're nuts. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:11pm - DYA NLI ""] CONFUCIOUS SAY UR DOING IT LONG |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:11pm - ouchdrummer ""] Any time i try to get a new cymbal from a manufactures warranty they always say that the way it's broken shows that it was used incorrectly. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:14pm - darkwor ""] I had a 12" Wuhan china a long time ago, and it was great, until it was stolen. I might give that a chance, I agree that with this type of cymbal, the softness absorbs the impact, and the vibrations reverberate through it longer (seems like they would), as opposed to a brittle china cymbal that has a quick attack, but no sustain, and cracks easier under high impact. I'm not looking for that quick attack, just a nice long washy sound that's not overpowering and doesn't sound like a piece of scrap metal when it's isolated. I'd have it on a heavy boom stand at around a 60-70 degree angle, hitting the bend in the china with the upper shaft of the stick. No need to change that technique really, yes I do hit real hard, but in the past, all chinas I've had you can barely hear over the rest of my kit, including all the other cymbals. I know Wuhans go for under $100, but no stores seem to sell them around here, probably because they're so damn cheap compared to other cymbals. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:15pm - darkwor ""] niccolai said:also, most cymbals have at least a year warranty on cracking. if you're breaking one every two weeks and then buying a new one, you're nuts. hah, nah more like 3 a year at most. usually i just go without one. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:16pm - ouchdrummer ""] jon, the K 17' china boy i have still has no cracks, and still sounds great. just saying. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:16pm - darkwor ""] ouchdrummer said:Any time i try to get a new cymbal from a manufactures warranty they always say that the way it's broken shows that it was used incorrectly. cymbal forensics = pseudoscience |
| __________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:17pm - darkwor ""] ouchdrummer said:jon, the K 17' china boy i have still has no cracks, and still sounds great. just saying. i found a nice 18" K on ebay for $200... it's used though.. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:27pm - niccolai ""] darkwor said:I had a 12" Wuhan china a long time ago, and it was great, until it was stolen. I might give that a chance, I agree that with this type of cymbal, the softness absorbs the impact, and the vibrations reverberate through it longer (seems like they would), as opposed to a brittle china cymbal that has a quick attack, but no sustain, and cracks easier under high impact. I'm not looking for that quick attack, just a nice long washy sound that's not overpowering and doesn't sound like a piece of scrap metal when it's isolated. I'd have it on a heavy boom stand at around a 60-70 degree angle, hitting the bend in the china with the upper shaft of the stick. No need to change that technique really, yes I do hit real hard, but in the past, all chinas I've had you can barely hear over the rest of my kit, including all the other cymbals. I know Wuhans go for under $100, but no stores seem to sell them around here, probably because they're so damn cheap compared to other cymbals. I'd recomend the 18 or 20 inch wuhan for that application. the 16 is bright and has quicker attack than what you're looking for IMO. anything bigger then the 20 is too washy sounding and way too resonant. order them off musiciansfriend.com or another online retailer. you won't haveto pay sales tax and alot of places ship free. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:27pm - murphnli ""] Wuhan is the best bet. They are trashy chinas, and to me sound way better (especially for their price) than their more subtle counterparts. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:29pm - niccolai ""] ouchdrummer said:Any time i try to get a new cymbal from a manufactures warranty they always say that the way it's broken shows that it was used incorrectly. if you buy it from guitar center and it brakes, you bring it back and yell enough till they give you a replacement without even looking at the thing. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:34pm - murphnli ""] niccolai said: darkwor said:I had a 12" Wuhan china a long time ago, and it was great, until it was stolen. I might give that a chance, I agree that with this type of cymbal, the softness absorbs the impact, and the vibrations reverberate through it longer (seems like they would), as opposed to a brittle china cymbal that has a quick attack, but no sustain, and cracks easier under high impact. I'm not looking for that quick attack, just a nice long washy sound that's not overpowering and doesn't sound like a piece of scrap metal when it's isolated. I'd have it on a heavy boom stand at around a 60-70 degree angle, hitting the bend in the china with the upper shaft of the stick. No need to change that technique really, yes I do hit real hard, but in the past, all chinas I've had you can barely hear over the rest of my kit, including all the other cymbals. I know Wuhans go for under $100, but no stores seem to sell them around here, probably because they're so damn cheap compared to other cymbals. I'd recomend the 18 or 20 inch wuhan for that application. the 16 is bright and has quicker attack than what you're looking for IMO. anything bigger then the 20 is too washy sounding and way too resonant. order them off musiciansfriend.com or another online retailer. you won't haveto pay sales tax and alot of places ship free. Wuhans aren't around, but a Turkish company Agazarian has the deal through GC and are identical to Wuhan chinas. I don't even play a china anymore, I shouldn't know this shit. |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 12:47pm - KeynoteCompanyNLI ""] I have a Sabian AA China 18"........ asking $125. I forget what kind of shape it's in so I'd have to check on that. Let me know if you'd be interested. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 1:27pm - niccolai ""] murphnli said: niccolai said: darkwor said:I had a 12" Wuhan china a long time ago, and it was great, until it was stolen. I might give that a chance, I agree that with this type of cymbal, the softness absorbs the impact, and the vibrations reverberate through it longer (seems like they would), as opposed to a brittle china cymbal that has a quick attack, but no sustain, and cracks easier under high impact. I'm not looking for that quick attack, just a nice long washy sound that's not overpowering and doesn't sound like a piece of scrap metal when it's isolated. I'd have it on a heavy boom stand at around a 60-70 degree angle, hitting the bend in the china with the upper shaft of the stick. No need to change that technique really, yes I do hit real hard, but in the past, all chinas I've had you can barely hear over the rest of my kit, including all the other cymbals. I know Wuhans go for under $100, but no stores seem to sell them around here, probably because they're so damn cheap compared to other cymbals. I'd recomend the 18 or 20 inch wuhan for that application. the 16 is bright and has quicker attack than what you're looking for IMO. anything bigger then the 20 is too washy sounding and way too resonant. order them off musiciansfriend.com or another online retailer. you won't haveto pay sales tax and alot of places ship free. Wuhans aren't around, but a Turkish company Agazarian has the deal through GC and are identical to Wuhan chinas. I don't even play a china anymore, I shouldn't know this shit. i bought my last wuhan china from GC. do they just not carry them anymore? I know also daimond chinas are the same as wuhans, just rebadged |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 1:45pm - darkwor ""] KeynoteCompanyNLI said:I have a Sabian AA China 18"........ asking $125. I forget what kind of shape it's in so I'd have to check on that. Let me know if you'd be interested. Thanks for the offer, AA's are pretty good, but I think I'm gonna go with the Wuhan or whatever they call 'em now. $60 bucks new on ebay, sold |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 4:36pm - barbeloh ""] wuhans rule and are mega cheap. you shouldn't pay more than $40 or $50 for a 16-18". They also last for ages. I played a Zildjian AAX China 16" a few months ago and loved the sound, not sure if it's worth the price. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 5:12pm - moenli ""] srsly...I LOOOOOVE Zildjian cymbals but for the life of me I cannot afford them. I feel like they get more and more expensive every time I look. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 6:54pm - sxealex ""] ok you do this... buy the cymbal new... make sure it cracks within a year... get a replacement.... sell it... buy a new one. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 23,2009 7:15pm - ZJD ""] i like zildjian's red label chinas. i have a 20 inch one that sounds pretty 'explodey', don't know if that's what you're going for. I think they make them in 22 inches. also, i second the spring dealies, i've had my china on one for 3 years and no damage. it's also a lot easier to get it to sit flat. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 7:38pm - moenli ""] sxealex said:ok you do this... buy the cymbal new... make sure it cracks within a year... get a replacement.... sell it... buy a new one. Yea, i remember you used to tell me about this whole pan but I dont crack cymbals within a year. I could just use a bolt cutter or something. The thing is I need to rehaul my whole cymbal set. I dont care too much for what I have right now, except for my 18" Dream crash. I checked out these new A Custom cymbals called the "Reso's" (i.e. Reso Hats, Redo Crash, etc.) and they sounded fuckin SWEET and they look great too. Unfortunately I dont have $800 right now or fucking ever. Not for cymbals anyway. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 7:43pm - moenli ""] http://zildjian.com/EN-US/zVideos/videos.ad2?VID=96 |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 7:44pm - moenli ""] click the Reso link above the dude from TAS |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 8:51pm - corpus_colostomy ""] darkwor said: ouchdrummer said:Any time i try to get a new cymbal from a manufactures warranty they always say that the way it's broken shows that it was used incorrectly. cymbal forensics = pseudoscience i worked at zildjian for close to a year and you're wrong about the pseudoscience part. ..hey good talk, we'll see ya out there. wuhan is some sick shit. zijdian: k's and z's are both money cast series shit. sabian is just garbage. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 9:01pm - josh_hates_you ""] in china cymbal plays you |
| _________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 9:03pm - moenli ""] I dont care for Z customs being that I've only owned one and it lasted me LESS than a year which never happens to me. I know they're hand made to some extent so every cymbal is different but i didnt care too much for the sound either. |
| ________________________________________________ [Mar 23,2009 9:55pm - AfterWorldObliteration ""] I got a 8" wuhan china for $8 at guitar center 2 years ago. it just started cracking. sweatshop labor ftw. |
| ____________________________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 9:56am - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] niccolai said:try these cymbal springs. they absoarb some of the blow from your stick hits so as not to damage the cymbal: [img] I used to always use these. The dudes at Dicenso's in Weymouth think they're bad for china's though. I forget the reasoning. Seemed to make enough sense at the time to cause me to do without them (for now at least to see how it goes). |
| ____________________________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 9:57am - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] I should elaborate.. I used to use the heavy spring for chinas only. I fucking hate it when people use cymbal springs for crashes. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 10:58am - darkwor ""] awaiting a 20" wuhan in the mail...we'll see how long it lasts. I'll definitely invest in one of those springys. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:00am - DYA NLI ""] Maybe you should just play drums better. EVER THINK OF THAT, HOSS? |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:00am - DYA NLI ""] LOL |
| __________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:11am - darkwor ""] CHINA CYMBAL MAKE BAD DRUMMER GOOD |
| __________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:15am - darkwor ""] Also I picked up a Zildjian A 16" fast crash last night, it cuts nice and it feels buttery soft. I think it gets gradually thinner toward the edge, so I'm looking forward to slicing my thumb off. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:36am - ouchdrummer ""] I had one of those jon. It sounded great, but i broke it in about a month and a half. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 11:48am - darkwor ""] damn..you're the king of breaking cymbals, hopefully I can make this one last at least 6 months |
| _________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 3:58pm - sxealex ""] moenli said: sxealex said:ok you do this... buy the cymbal new... make sure it cracks within a year... get a replacement.... sell it... buy a new one. Yea, i remember you used to tell me about this whole pan but I dont crack cymbals within a year. I could just use a bolt cutter or something. The thing is I need to rehaul my whole cymbal set. I dont care too much for what I have right now, except for my 18" Dream crash. I checked out these new A Custom cymbals called the "Reso's" (i.e. Reso Hats, Redo Crash, etc.) and they sounded fuckin SWEET and they look great too. Unfortunately I dont have $800 right now or fucking ever. Not for cymbals anyway. you dont need bolt cutters just beat the fuck out of them with marching sticks for a week... The only problem is if you forget to do it within a year like I just did. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 24,2009 9:40pm - No_Redemption ""] Id roll with a 18" wuhan,also check your postioning and technique. I dont like those spring jobs. FUCK DEM SHITS |
| __________________________________ [Apr 23,2009 12:09pm - darkwor ""] UPDATE: The Wuhan 20" is fucking great, unfortunately after about a month it's starting to crack along the fold. It will last for a while longer but...what the fuck. |
| __________________________________ [Apr 23,2009 1:43pm - DYA NLI ""] I was playing it with hammers, could that have anything to do with it? |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 23,2009 9:48pm - xgodzillax ""] the zildjian china trash chinas sound good, kinda heavy and quick though. i currently use a sabian XS 18", and it sounds wicked good. the sabian paragon 19" china sounds fucking AMAZING. also, paiste 2002 series chinas are amazing sounding. as are the zildjian K dark chinas. |
| ____________________________________ [May 11,2009 1:34pm - paulydude ""] get a sabian b8 pro china |
| ___________________________________ [May 12,2009 8:46am - barbeloh ""] WUHAN FTW I hear all kinds of stories about them breaking early, etc. but I've played Wuhan for 10 years, and am only on my 3rd one - and the first two didn't break but got lost. love that cheap trashy sound |