[violent, awesome history factoid] On this day, August 13 1521, seige ends, Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) falls to Cortes[views:4625][posts:30]_______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 9:14am - thuringwethil ""] for anyone who has seen and liked "Apocalypto," but also enjoy reading history -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan History of the Conquest of Mexico by William H. Prescott http://www.amazon.com/History-Conquest-Mex...ico-Library-Classics/dp/0375758038/ Letters from Mexico by Hernan Cortes http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Mexico-Hernan-Cortes/dp/0300090943/ The Discovery And Conquest Of Mexico by Bernal Diaz (motherfucker was THERE) http://www.amazon.com/Discovery-Conquest-M...xico-Bernal-Castillo/dp/030681319X/ definitely one of the coolest, bloodiest adventure stories. No matter which book I read on the subject, it usually delivers. Maybe the Aztecs had it coming? Mass human sacrifice? They'd never seen a horse or iron before? They thought Cortes was the god Quetzalcoatl, coming to finish them off? trust me, coolest shit ever. What if it had never happened? if the city state today had reign over the entire continent and we all could be marched to the block and skull rack at any moment? :doublehorns: |
| ___________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 9:46am - arktouros ""] that Bernal Diaz book looks great, i gotta pick that up. “When we saw so many cities and villages built in the water and other great towns on dry land we were amazed and said that it was like the enchantments (...) on account of the great towers and cues and buildings rising from the water, and all built of masonry. And some of our soldiers even asked whether the things that we saw were not a dream? (...) I do not know how to describe it, seeing things as we did that had never been heard of or seen before, not even dreamed about.” —Bernal Díaz del Castillo, The Conquest of New Spain "Some of the conquistadores had travelled as widely as Venice and Istanbul, and many said that Tenochtitlan was as large and fine a city as any they had seen." it's still amazing how technologically advanced they were, this city had more public works services going on than worcester does. free prostitution also. the human sacrifices were vast but often times exaggerated - it was part of their culture, they sacrificed prisoners, criminals, and to many of them including their warriors, it was the highest honor. interesting to see how far they would have advanced if they managed to fight off the spaniards. but then the brits/americans would have got them 200 years later...that is, if they possibly stood a chance against what would have been the greatest warriors in the world at the time. what stands there now? one of the biggest trash heaps in the world. |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 9:54am - thuringwethil ""] oh yeah, totally. Plus they keep digging up Aztec remnants in Mexico City occasionally. I've co-written a few Hekseri songs on the subject, simply because it's so brutal |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:01am - arilliusbm ""] I really, really, really, really, really, really, hate the Spanish conquest. I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of these stories are exaggerated in the translations as well. It wasn't just the gun powder, guns, and trickery that killed the Aztecs, it was the disease and corruption they brought. You want to know another travesty that happened because of the Spanish conquest? They lied to the Incas and totally used them. It angers me to no end how pre-Columbian Meixco/South America was conquered - primarily in the name of Christianity. |
| __________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:02am - RustyPS ""] [img] |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:06am - arktouros ""] exactly. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:07am - thuringwethil ""] I agree Jim, the Spanish Conquest is just nuts, ESPECIALLY because of the Cross they imposed. It's a great story though, the Incas as well. While I'm on a roll, I also recommend Bartolme das Casas "Short account of the destruction of the Indies," it reads like Cannibal Corpse lyrics, the list of atrocities against Indiginous tribes extended even to Florida |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:07am - arilliusbm ""] I love how Mexico City is a hotbed for UFO sightings too. Perhaps Kulkucan is back? |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:10am - arilliusbm ""] I've always been more interested in the Mayan/Olmec/Zapotec cultures than the Aztecs and Incas; but I should start reading more about them as well. The Incans (or pre-Incan tribes in Peru) were extremely advanced as well. Mystical tribes that had vast knowledge of the stars, architecture, mummification, and weaving. Some of the weaves from back then compare to stuff today, but back then they were done by hand. |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:11am - arktouros ""] anywhere that has rediculous population density and crazy fucking mexicans you're bound to get UFO sightings. also sort of related to conquistadors, check out The Fountain (2006), great movie. |
| ________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:11am - thuringwethil ""] really? shit, I should look into that, how cool! |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:13am - arktouros ""] and i've always wondered what sort of exploring these tribes did, how far did they travel? cities so advanced as these were bound to have explorers that recorded something from their perspective, they must have had contact with north americans at least... |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:15am - arilliusbm ""] Always loved the supposed "lost" cultures of the Amazon and Peru, as well. Ever heard of the "Cloud People" they discovered not too long ago? A supposed tribe of very light-skinned people (some reports say blonde even) that lived in the Andes mountains. The Incas conquered them in the late 1400s, but the remainders of the Cloud People were tricked by the Spanish to fight against the Incas in the mid 1500s. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...-of-cloud-people-found-in-Peru.html |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:17am - arilliusbm ""] arktouros said:and i've always wondered what sort of exploring these tribes did, how far did they travel? cities so advanced as these were bound to have explorers that recorded something from their perspective, they must have had contact with north americans at least... They've discovered a trade route from the Central and South-Eastern Mexico (Mayans) all the way up to northern Arizona. They do know that they traded with the Hopi tribe (knowns as the "Ancients" to the Navajo). Supposedly the Hopis also had a decent sized city in the middle of the desert which was eventually destroyed due to lack of water and resources. |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:22am - the_reverend ""] Cortez the killer? I learned out about all this stuff from apocalypto. |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:23am - the_reverend ""] oh, Apocalyto is a historical documentary by the same guy that did the historical documentary passion of the chirst. |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:24am - arilliusbm ""] the_reverend said:oh, Apocalyto is a historical documentary by the same guy that did the historical documentary passion of the chirst. You're asking me to anonymously troll you right now, aren't you? |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:27am - the_reverend ""] cruisey aril is cruisey |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:27am - arktouros ""] arilliusbm said:the "Cloud People" YES, interesting, but I haven't been able to find a respectable source or some real archaeology on that site, including their actual racial makeup. the only reliable evidence for that is the supposed remains human remains including intact hair (which is rare or near impossible for a site that old), paintings of large ships on many of their walls that led to people speculating that they crossed the atlantic and went down the amazon and further to get away from the oppressive heat. but none of that is reliable and i can't trust what i've found on that. i want to see that myself someday. |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:30am - Aril mobile ""] Check out the book fingerprints of the gods. It briefly touches on strange things in Peru. Ever seen the walls on some of the Incan cities? |
| _______________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:38am - the_reverend ""] [img] |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:49am - arktouros ""] Aril%20mobile said:Check out the book fingerprints of the gods. It briefly touches on strange things in Peru. Ever seen the walls on some of the Incan cities? that book looks like total fiction..interesting but i can't justify reading that. i plan on blowing some money at the bookstore in a couple weeks and hopefully i can get some high detail pictures of the ruins, something the internet sucks at. |
| _____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 10:55am - arilliusbm ""] It's really the authors interpretation of what he sees in Peru, etc. It has pictures and the like, and also has very good descriptions of some monuments down there. It's not 100% pure Non-fiction, but it's close enough with the evidence he supplies where it makes you question things. |
| __________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:08pm - MillenialKingdom ""] arilliusbm said:I really, really, really, really, really, really, hate the Spanish conquest. I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of these stories are exaggerated in the translations as well. It wasn't just the gun powder, guns, and trickery that killed the Aztecs, it was the disease and corruption they brought. You want to know another travesty that happened because of the Spanish conquest? They lied to the Incas and totally used them. It angers me to no end how pre-Columbian Meixco/South America was conquered - primarily in the name of Christianity. In the name of Catholicism* |
| _________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:13pm - Martins ""] The reformation hadn't happened yet. |
| __________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:29pm - MillenialKingdom ""] Regardless, almost all of the religious persecution had on other nations and peoples was committed in the name of Catholicism, the most judgmental and doctrinally objectable sect (not counting cults) of the religion. |
| _________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:31pm - Martins ""] Back then Catholicism and Christianity were one and the same. That's all I'm saying. |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:41pm - immortal13 ""] I 100% approve of this thread. I love history. Though I am also big on western civilization like the sumerians and stuff like that. Ancient Europe and Ancient Mexico rule. |
| ____________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:41pm - immortal13 ""] And Egypt, almost forgot. |
| ___________________________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 7:46pm - Aril drunnk at the barking crab ""] You realize Protestant religions were in their infancy stages ? |
| _________________________________________ [Aug 13,2009 8:51pm - Conservationist ""] thuringwethil said:Maybe the Aztecs had it coming? Putting aside the moral implications of that, all Amerinds "had it coming" in that their societies were in decline. Still, the Aztecs are one of my favorites ever because they truly understood the warrior spirit. Nothing that occupies Mexico, North America or Spain today is worthy of them at their height. |