Emails of university hacked, exposing global scheme about global warming lie[views:8263][posts:65]_______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:27pm - aril ""] funny timing considering the discussion about a global carbon tax next week. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1&hpw Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change. The e-mail messages, attributed to prominent American and British climate researchers, include discussions of scientific data and whether it should be released, exchanges about how best to combat the arguments of skeptics, and casual comments — in some cases derisive — about specific people known for their skeptical views. Drafts of scientific papers and a photo collage that portrays climate skeptics on an ice floe were also among the hacked data, some of which dates back 13 years. In one e-mail exchange, a scientist writes of using a statistical “trick” in a chart illustrating a recent sharp warming trend. In another, a scientist refers to climate skeptics as “idiots.” Some skeptics asserted Friday that the correspondence revealed an effort to withhold scientific information. “This is not a smoking gun; this is a mushroom cloud,” said Patrick J. Michaels, a climatologist who has long faulted evidence pointing to human-driven warming and is criticized in the documents. Some of the correspondence portrays the scientists as feeling under siege by the skeptics’ camp and worried that any stray comment or data glitch could be turned against them. The evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so widely accepted that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument. However, the documents will undoubtedly raise questions about the quality of research on some specific questions and the actions of some scientists. In several e-mail exchanges, Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and other scientists discuss gaps in understanding of recent variations in temperature. Skeptic Web sites pointed out one line in particular: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t,” Dr. Trenberth wrote. The cache of e-mail messages also includes references to journalists, including this reporter, and queries from journalists related to articles they were reporting. Officials at the University of East Anglia confirmed in a statement on Friday that files had been stolen from a university server and that the police had been brought in to investigate the breach. They added, however, that they could not confirm that all the material circulating on the Internet was authentic. But several scientists and others contacted by The New York Times confirmed that they were the authors or recipients of specific e-mail messages included in the file. The revelations are bound to inflame the public debate as hundreds of negotiators prepare to negotiate an international climate accord at meetings in Copenhagen next month, and at least one scientist speculated that the timing was not coincidental. Dr. Trenberth said Friday that he was appalled at the release of the e-mail messages. But he added that he thought the revelations might backfire against climate skeptics. He said that he thought that the messages showed “the integrity of scientists.” Still, some of the comments might lend themselves to being interpreted as sinister. In a 1999 e-mail exchange about charts showing climate patterns over the last two millenniums, Phil Jones, a longtime climate researcher at the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, said he had used a “trick” employed by another scientist, Michael Mann, to “hide the decline” in temperatures. Dr. Mann, a professor at Pennsylvania State University, confirmed in an interview that the e-mail message was real. He said the choice of words by his colleague was poor but noted that scientists often used the word “trick” to refer to a good way to solve a problem, “and not something secret.” At issue were sets of data, both employed in two studies. One data set showed long-term temperature effects on tree rings; the other, thermometer readings for the past 100 years. Through the last century, tree rings and thermometers show a consistent rise in temperature until 1960, when some tree rings, for unknown reasons, no longer show that rise, while the thermometers continue to do so until the present. Dr. Mann explained that the reliability of the tree-ring data was called into question, so they were no longer used to track temperature fluctuations. But he said dropping the use of the tree rings was never something that was hidden, and had been in the scientific literature for more than a decade. “It sounds incriminating, but when you look at what you’re talking about, there’s nothing there,” Dr. Mann said. In addition, other independent but indirect measurements of temperature fluctuations in the studies broadly agreed with the thermometer data showing rising temperatures. Dr. Jones, writing in an e-mail message, declined to be interviewed. Stephen McIntyre, a blogger who on his Web site, climateaudit.org, has for years been challenging data used to chart climate patterns, and who came in for heated criticism in some e-mail messages, called the revelations “quite breathtaking.” But several scientists whose names appear in the e-mail messages said they merely revealed that scientists were human, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming. “Science doesn’t work because we’re all nice,” said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of climate studies were in the cache. “Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.” He said the breach at the University of East Anglia was discovered after hackers who had gained access to the correspondence sought Tuesday to hack into a different server supporting realclimate.org, a blog unrelated to NASA that he runs with several other scientists pressing the case that global warming is true. The intruders sought to create a mock blog post there and to upload the full batch of files from Britain. That effort was thwarted, Dr. Schmidt said, and scientists immediately notified colleagues at the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit. The first posts that revealed details from the files appeared Thursday at The Air Vent, a Web site devoted to skeptics’ arguments. At first, said Dr. Michaels, the climatologist who has faulted some of the science of the global warming consensus, his instinct was to ignore the correspondence as “just the way scientists talk.” But on Friday, he said that after reading more deeply, he felt that some exchanges reflected an effort to block the release of data for independent review. He said some messages mused about discrediting him by challenging the veracity of his doctoral dissertation at the University of Wisconsin by claiming he knew his research was wrong. “This shows these are people willing to bend rules and go after other people’s reputations in very serious ways,” he said. Spencer R. Weart, a physicist and historian who is charting the course of research on global warming, said the hacked material would serve as “great material for historians.” |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:29pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] but its warm out! |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:32pm - Conservationist ""] The problem isn't global warming, it's too many people. And too many thoughtless ones! |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:32pm - Sacreligion ""] It's Al Gore's fault. He got involved and all of a sudden the Earth wasn't cool anymore. |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:32pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] the problem with scotland is... that it's full of scots. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:35pm - aril ""] Sacreligion said:It's Al Gore's fault. He got involved and all of a sudden the Earth wasn't cool anymore. hahah |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 2:55pm - Conservationist ""] Sacreligion said:It's Al Gore's fault. He got involved and all of a sudden the Earth wasn't cool anymore. Painfully true. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:01pm - aril ""] He belongs in jail, among other prevelant people in America right now. |
| ______________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:27pm - SkinSandwich ""] Where da white women at? |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:38pm - arktouros ""] “Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.” hahahahah... either way the article doesn't really reveal much of anything. Gore should still be in jail though. Earth does what it wants and our affect has been minimal at most. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:50pm - aril ""] More details will come. The ap is a little reluctant on releasing the emails. Be prepared for articles saying they are fabricated |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:53pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Prepare for articles saying that scientists laughing at climate-change-deniers are somehow out of line. When in reality that shit is still hysterical. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:58pm - aril ""] Fact of the matter is that going green is good for us and earth; but gore is pushing for carbon tax because he claims we are reponsible for the change. No one is denying climate change, however don't lie abd make profit off of it. |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 3:59pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] I still say that the gradual relaxation of the social taboo against girls farting is to blame. |
| ______________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:00pm - the_reverend ""] the fact that I can go barefoot at the beach in mid-november means something... like year long indian summer. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:02pm - aril ""] yea I go skinny dipping assawampsett in January. Your point? |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:10pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] As much as I'd like to agree with you Rev, I wouldn't actually pull out New England weather as evidence. Shit's been completely random and all over the place since just about forever, as far as I've been lead to believe. |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:11pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] I will tell you one thing, though: I've noticed insects hanging around later and later in the year over the last decade or so. FWIW. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:24pm - ark nli ""] http://www.examiner.com/x-28973-Essex-Coun...k-was-never-accurateand-CRU-knew-it I guess this says on average we've been seeing a global cooling trend from 1960 on. |
| ______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:31pm - SLAG ""] [img] |
| _________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:39pm - Martins ""] It's been said that global warming isn't an accurate term at all. Climate change is a more accurate way to describe what is happening. Warmer places getting colder, colder places getting warmer etc etc. |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:41pm - mattkings ""] lol |
| ______________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 4:51pm - SkinSandwich ""] Martins said:It's been said that global warming isn't an accurate term at all. Climate change is a more accurate way to describe what is happening. Warmer places getting colder, colder places getting warmer etc etc. This fact still does not deter me from loving vag. |
| _________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 5:32pm - Martins ""] it's true |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 5:34pm - immortal13 ""] If he turned off his global warming machine we'd be all set. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 5:41pm - aril ""] Be prepared for carbon tax. |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 5:46pm - immortal13 ""] aril said:Be prepared to pay for oxygen. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 23,2009 6:08pm - aril ""] corporate take over of the world is upon us |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 6:19pm - Conservationist ""] Martins said: Climate change is a more accurate way to describe what is happening. Yes, and climate change is only one of many human-created effects: * Death of species * Pollution of earth, air and sea * Reduction of natural habitats * Hormone-stimulating chemicals in water * Runoff redirection Solution: fewer people. Corollary: get rid of the thoughtless and stupid first. |
| _____________________________ [Nov 23,2009 6:31pm - pam ""] Conservationist said: Martins said: Climate change is a more accurate way to describe what is happening. Yes, and climate change is only one of many human-created effects: * Death of species * Pollution of earth, air and sea * Reduction of natural habitats * Hormone-stimulating chemicals in water * Runoff redirection Solution: fewer people. Corollary: get rid of the thoughtless and stupid first. This. |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 6:36pm - ArilliusBM ""] Pam and Conservationist agreeing on stuff? Awesome. ...'tis true, though. The World's population is exponentially growing, especially in some third world countries. I heard we're going to have in excess of 20 billion people in our life time coming up. We're around 7 billion right now. Do the math.. what this tells me is that we need to colonize space or the ocean immediately. MORE SEALABS PLEASE. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 10:42pm - Martins ""] There's no way to derive the exponential function given only two points. God damn english degree. Anyway, I agree with conservationator. |
| ________________________________________________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 10:53pm - martins the anal mathematic drill instructor ""] lol hi gauyz i can do math is that funny lol bye gauyz |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:04pm - ArilliusBM ""] ^^hahaha Martins, I stopped caring about math in 10th grade. Anyone that enjoys trigonometry, calculus, or anything beyond has a screw loose in their head. Geometry > all other forms of mathematics. Also, seems you forgot about the Malthusian Growth model, which is quite commonly used to estimate populations. It's a basic exponential model. [img] |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:06pm - swamplorddvm ""] Conservationist said:The problem isn't global warming, it's too many people. And too many thoughtless ones! Global warming is a problem caused by too many people. Maybe it's not AS bad as we are told. but to act like we can consume without consequence is foolish. The real problem IS too many humans. Far too many. Less people = stronger community within nations and a healthier, richer planet for us to live on. |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:08pm - ArilliusBM ""] There are way too many people on this planet and it's only going to get worse. Should have colonized the oceans decades ago. But most people seem to forget the role the sun plays in any climate change on the planet. We're due for some form of an ice age soon. EXPONENTIAL ICE AGE |
| __________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:09pm - Martins ""] Ya but what's the exponent lol gauyz |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:14pm - immortal13 ""] Another thing we're said to be due for is a reversing of the poles. We need some sort of mass genocide. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:16pm - Martins ""] pole reversal does not probably won't happen all at once and, if it did, it wouldn't be as big of a deal as people make it out to be. |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:18pm - immortal13 ""] I know, me and my buddy at work have a joke about it though that's really not all that amusing but I just go with it. |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 23,2009 11:19pm - ArilliusBM ""] I should have joined Heaven's Gate. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:38am - Yeti ""] DestroyYouAlot said:I will tell you one thing, though: I've noticed insects hanging around later and later in the year over the last decade or so. FWIW. that's weird you say that, i was thinking the same thing. the geese in Worcester haven't migrated yet, and i was watching moths flying around at the train station. also the other night i was walking through Elm Park in Worcester, it was around 35, and i noticed a few bugs flying around one of the lights. it could be because i'm looking for this sort of thing, but thinking back i can't recall seeing night insects out and about in mid-November. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:41am - aril ""] I had to spray for moths over the weekend. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:47am - Yeti ""] my friend from work said she has had the worst trouble with moths in her house over the past few weeks. |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:49am - arktouros ""] I noticed geese all over Elm Park the other day, and the insects all around as well. Leaves also staying around longer than usual. But...I think this has to do with us turning into old farts more than anything else. |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:51am - DestroyYouAlot ""] What, that we spend all our time sitting around public parks looking at geese? |
| __________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:55am - Martins ""] There are 4 or 5 moths in my house right now that are impossible to kill. |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:55am - arktouros ""] Some ancient fuck threw a plastic bag on the ground the other day when the trash can was right next to him. Dick. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:57am - Pires ""] Moths are no more dangerous than a ladybug. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:59am - Martins ""] You're no more dangerous than a ladybug. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 11:03am - Pires ""] Touché |
| ______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 11:16am - pam ""] ArilliusBM said:Pam and Conservationist agreeing on stuff? Awesome. We agree on a lot of stuff, just usually not the solutions to the problems we agree exist. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 11:19am - aril ""] Ever Had moths eat your clothes? Ladybugs have manners, at least. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 11:41am - Pires ""] aril said:Ever Had moths eat your clothes? Ladybugs have manners, at least. god damnit. It was an obscure simpsons reference I was making lol. |
| ________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 11:54am - aril ""] simpsons? what's that? |
| ______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 3:20pm - Yeti ""] Pires said:Moths are no more dangerous than a ladybug. LADYBUG!! AAAAAAAH! [img] |
| _______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 3:24pm - Pires ""] thank you. |
| ______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 7:24pm - nic ""] Climate change is inevitable. Fortunately, even if we choose not to deter it, the problem responsible for speeding it up will be solved gradually. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 7:30pm - Hoser ""] pam said: ArilliusBM said:Pam and Conservationist agreeing on stuff? Awesome. We agree on a lot of stuff, just usually not the solutions to the problems we agree exist. I need to go fap now; pardon me. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 24,2009 7:31pm - Hoser ""] Pam, plz send n00ds. The thought of Conservationist makes me wanna yuke. He types like a hairy guy. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 24,2009 10:36pm - Snowden ""] ArilliusBM said:But most people seem to forget the role the sun plays in any climate change on the planet. We're due for some form of an ice age soon. EXPONENTIAL ICE AGE Yeah, but that'd be "soon" in geological time, not the kind of in-our-lifetimes increases we're seeing now. |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 25,2009 8:16am - TheRidersofDoom ""] Kill teh hoomins |
| ______________________________ [Nov 25,2009 10:06am - pam ""] Hoser said:Pam, plz send n00ds. The thought of Conservationist makes me wanna yuke. He types like a hairy guy. [img] |
| __________________________________________ [Nov 25,2009 11:17am - ctb0rderpatrol ""] pam said: Conservationist said: Martins said: Climate change is a more accurate way to describe what is happening. Yes, and climate change is only one of many human-created effects: * Death of species * Pollution of earth, air and sea * Reduction of natural habitats * Hormone-stimulating chemicals in water * Runoff redirection Solution: fewer people. Corollary: get rid of the thoughtless and stupid first. This. you two should mate |
| _______________________________ [Nov 26,2009 6:17pm - Hoser ""] pam said: Hoser said:Pam, plz send n00ds. The thought of Conservationist makes me wanna yuke. He types like a hairy guy. [img] Wrong n00dz!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT WANT. |
| ______________________________________ [Nov 26,2009 7:23pm - the_reverend ""] facts: don't shit where you eat. |