SLAVING amp heads: i need advice from the great RttP gear techs!!![views:7064][posts:40]__________________________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 1:06pm - french fried components ""] to start off: the info I've gathered about slaving one head into another is that I can choose to have a cable sent from HEAD 1 via fx loop send to HEAD 2 into HEAD 2's fx loop return. is slaving heads this easy? what the hell does anyone benefit by doing this? (gaining combined watts/power/volume???) part II: I would be using two solid state heads. I'll pause for tube elitist hate posts... (hey, if i had $1k+ for a better rig, I'd go tube.) to be exact: i want to take my 100 watt Line 6 Flextone II XL --> slave my 150 watt Crate Powerblock and send the power out to my generic 4x12" cab and a Genz Benz 1x15" or Sonic 1x18" bass cab altogether. possible? help.me. |
| _________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 6:45pm - t2daeek ""] yea. just get a stereo pedal and send lines to both amps. either head into either cab. prob line 6 into 412 and power block into bass cab. no slaving, no BS, no worries, just loudz. if you're really dying to slave them together, i would try and pick one of the brains of the astronomer crowd. bass player uses many many slaved amps. |
| _________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 6:46pm - t2daeek ""] btw, an a/b/y box would be the best option for a pedal, unless you want it to have some other function. you can find someone to build one cheap, or if you're savvy with a soldering iron, you can DIY. |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 10:08pm - ctb0derpatrol ""] sell both heads, buy something tube, or if you have to go solid state, the ampeg ss-150 is a good choice because it's well built. the only reason why you're thinking of slaving is because you're using line 6 shit. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 11:27pm - t2daeek ""] depending on the sound of the band and the player, solid state can work just fine... not every solid state head sucks and not every tube amp is awesome. it's all in the hands.... man... (toke) |
| __________________________________ [Nov 25,2010 11:33pm - t2daeek ""] don't think i read that post about the ampeg right... i don't know that amp, but i'm sure it's pretty ballsy. randall's can work too... i just got one (an rh100 to replace my busted-ass tube amp) and perfectly acceptable sounds come from that. just stay away from that big grey crate shit or fender anything that is supposed to be high gain. or keep shredding that line 6. for what it's worth, the fat guy from fear factory always claimed to get great sounds from a flextone (conveniently after they figured out an endorsement) on a bunch of tours around 1999. someone used it and liked it at some point. |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 26,2010 10:51am - ctb0derpatrol ""] the ampeg ss-150. well-built solid state amp that can be used on either bass or guitar. line 6 shit isnt that loud. im a drummer, every time i ever jammed with someone using a line 6 head, i needed a guitar monitor because they just plain aren't loud enough. thats the one glaring consistency with those amps. they're weak sauce. the difference between a well built and a crappy chinese built amp is like night and day. a good rule of thumb for solid state stuff is that it should be no newer than 1989, and built somewhere in the western world. chinese can't build anything right. |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 26,2010 10:53am - ctb0derpatrol ""] i blame line6s lack of volume on the over-digitizing of the signal path. seems to be amps that are simpler and more analog are louder |
| _______________________________ [Nov 26,2010 11:04am - blue ""] what the OP is suggesting wouldnt work as far as i know. what you are proposing would just take the preamp section of head 1 (bypassing the power amp) and run it into the power section of head 2 (bypassing the preamp). you wouldnt be able to run all those cabs. like tyler already said, just get an ABY pedal and run 2 rigs. you will be able to power all those cabs. ...and there aint nothing wrong with (some) line 6 and (some) solid state. L6 gets a bad rep from the spider series, which are kiddie beginner garbage. everything else is loud enough and gets solid enough sounds. i own several SS amps and i can shit on most people's tube sounds with them. not to mention there are a lot of people in this world who just dont know how to dial in proper sounds (ie putting in some goddamn midrange) |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 26,2010 11:29am - ctb0derpatrol ""] well blue, you and i both know someone with a flextone. again i needed a monitor to hear it over my drums. i personally wouldnt touch it with a 10' pole. every line6 i've ever played with was lacking in volume and needed other things to get me to hear it over my cymbals. that was with the 4x12 pointing directly at me as well. when i started jammin with dennis again, he showed up with a solid state ampeg. no monitor needed, the cab was off to the side, and pointing away from me. it still made my ears ring and i could hear it good over myself. i think this man's problem is not the use of solid state, but the use of L6. sell that thing to some newb for too much money, get a real head, dont get sucked in by colorful flashing LEDs, as most amps worth their salt dont have anything like that. we're talking about an amp, not a christmas tree here. i've never cracked open a spyder or a flextone, but i'd be willing to bet the output stage is the same thing. the flextone just has more flasy bells and whistles on it's front end. at the end of the day in my experience, i've never seen either one produce the proper volume as a stand-alone halfstack |
| _______________________________ [Nov 26,2010 11:34am - blue ""] yeah i know who you're talking about, and i say it was his ability to EQ it. ive seen plenty of flextones kill it in the volume dept, as long as it was EQed properly. no midrange = no volume |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 26,2010 12:04pm - JDDomination ""] ctb0derpatrol said:well blue, you and i both know someone with a flextone. again i needed a monitor to hear it over my drums. i personally wouldnt touch it with a 10' pole. every line6 i've ever played with was lacking in volume and needed other things to get me to hear it over my cymbals. that was with the 4x12 pointing directly at me as well. when i started jammin with dennis again, he showed up with a solid state ampeg. no monitor needed, the cab was off to the side, and pointing away from me. it still made my ears ring and i could hear it good over myself. i think this man's problem is not the use of solid state, but the use of L6. sell that thing to some newb for too much money, get a real head, dont get sucked in by colorful flashing LEDs, as most amps worth their salt dont have anything like that. we're talking about an amp, not a christmas tree here. i've never cracked open a spyder or a flextone, but i'd be willing to bet the output stage is the same thing. the flextone just has more flasy bells and whistles on it's front end. at the end of the day in my experience, i've never seen either one produce the proper volume as a stand-alone halfstack [img] |
| ______________________________ [Nov 26,2010 2:27pm - blue ""] i have the vh-150. i love. i know too the beauty of ampeg solid state. |
| _______________________________________________ [Nov 26,2010 9:53pm - IllinoisEnemaBradness ""] blue said: not to mention there are a lot of people in this world who just dont know how to dial in proper sounds (ie putting in some goddamn midrange) here here. I always prided myself for my tone in KA. I LOVE MIDRANGE. sometimes too much |
| ___________________________________________________ [Nov 27,2010 11:08pm - french fried components ""] thanks for the advice/heads up, guys. i'd still like to hear from someone who absolutely knows how to slave SS heads, but, i have no problem just buying an A/B/Y box (they run for $50 @ GC). |
| ___________________________________________________ [Nov 27,2010 11:11pm - french fried components ""] p.s. - i only have to crank my Flextone II XL at about 6-7 on the master volume dial when i send out one mono line to my 4x12"; it's plenty loud for my whole band. i just hate the low speaker rumble in that combo when i use my 7 string. |
| __________________________________________________ [Nov 29,2010 5:37pm - french fried components ""] t2daeek said: if you're really dying to slave them together, i would try and pick one of the brains of the astronomer crowd. bass player uses many many slaved amps. guess i'll be sending them some msgs... hope they're on facebook; i killed my myspace account many moons again... :-/ |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 29,2010 9:06pm - AndrewBastard ""] if you really want to slave your heads, just buy some black ones |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 29,2010 9:06pm - AndrewBastard ""] worst joke ever |
| ____________________________________________ [Dec 3,2010 3:40pm - pitch shit shifter ""] no kiddin, since we can also slave yellow ones & red ones |
| _________________________________ [Dec 3,2010 3:46pm - brian_dc ""] only mids are real I have nothing else to contribute |
| _____________________________ [Dec 3,2010 5:52pm - Mess ""] yup, line 6 = no volume |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 3,2010 5:54pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] Mess said:yup, line 6 = no volume |
| _______________________________________________ [Dec 10,2010 8:12pm - moldy old components ""] so... no one here knows how to slave heads?... :-/ |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 16,2010 9:53am - Bradsauce ""] If I'm getting your drift correctly, you're trying to drive the power sections for both heads with the preamp of the Flextone, right? I was digging in the manuals and I think you should be able to come out of Effects loops send (make sure it's switched to parallel) on the Flextone and into the "LEFT/MONO" line in on the Powerblock. I'm pretty sure you could just use a regular instrument cable (if not, it won't hurt your amps, just use a TRS cable). Let me know if that works, or if that's not what you're looking for. -Brad |
| __________________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 8:25am - soggy bottom components ""] precisely, brad. thanks! :CHEERS: i'll rig this up next practice and see if it works :HYPER: |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 9:46am - largefreakatzero ""] FuckIsMySignature said: Mess said:yup, line 6 = no volume The Flextone II is plenty loud, it just doesn't "cut". What Blue said about mids makes sense, I just never cared for the mid-tones of most solid states. I still have my FTII, but I just use it as a practice amp. BTW, it's probably about time for tubes in my Peavey XXX. I know there's a bunch of old threads about tubes, but since I'm too lazy to look, what are some recommendations on the best tubes for this head? |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 11:57am - Bradsauce ""] Do you have 6L6's or EL34's in the amp? |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:07pm - largefreakatzero ""] Bradsauce said:Do you have 6L6's or EL34's in the amp? I bought it used, but I'm fairly certain that someone put 6L6s up in there. |
| ______________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:33pm - blue ""] Bradsauce said:If I'm getting your drift correctly, you're trying to drive the power sections for both heads with the preamp of the Flextone, right? I was digging in the manuals and I think you should be able to come out of Effects loops send (make sure it's switched to parallel) on the Flextone and into the "LEFT/MONO" line in on the Powerblock. I'm pretty sure you could just use a regular instrument cable (if not, it won't hurt your amps, just use a TRS cable). Let me know if that works, or if that's not what you're looking for. -Brad i was under the impression that this would bypass the power section on the flextone. commonly, amps that can do the whole effects loop preamp in/poweramp out disengages one half of the amp. i would think what you are talking about would just leave the pre section of the flextone being powered by the crate. amirite? |
| ______________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:37pm - blue ""] largefreakatzero said: FuckIsMySignature said: Mess said:yup, line 6 = no volume The Flextone II is plenty loud, it just doesn't "cut". What Blue said about mids makes sense, I just never cared for the mid-tones of most solid states. I still have my FTII, but I just use it as a practice amp. i never met a line 6 that i didnt crank the mids to 10 on. midtones on solidstates are one thing, but thats a modeler. way different mid freq on those. BTW, it's probably about time for tubes in my Peavey XXX. I know there's a bunch of old threads about tubes, but since I'm too lazy to look, what are some recommendations on the best tubes for this head? first suggestion off the top of my head would be a quartet of SED winged C 6L6s, or if you find yourself fighting with the high end a lot (common with peaveys) i would maybe try some JJs. also, dont forget about a possible pre-amp retubing as well. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:51pm - Bradsauce ""] I'd second the SED 6L6, although I've been having some bad luck with JJ's lately (mostly EL34s). Electro-Harmonix are OK, and they're cheap, but they won't last as long as the winged C's. I'd order them from Tube Depot, and make sure someone checks the bias. Chances are it'll be fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I charge $30 for a bias adjustment, takes about an hour. For preamp tubes, I'd go JJ all the way. STAY AWAY FROM RUBY TUBES, no matter how temping the price is. |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:51pm - largefreakatzero ""] Thanks gents. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 2:56pm - Bradsauce ""] @blue As long as you keep the effects loop switch on parallel, it should feed both power sections. Or at least that's what the block diagram of the circuit leads me to believe. If it's in series, you're 100% correct! |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:04pm - largefreakatzero ""] Bradsauce said:I'd second the SED 6L6, although I've been having some bad luck with JJ's lately (mostly EL34s). Electro-Harmonix are OK, and they're cheap, but they won't last as long as the winged C's. I'd order them from Tube Depot, and make sure someone checks the bias. Chances are it'll be fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I charge $30 for a bias adjustment, takes about an hour. For preamp tubes, I'd go JJ all the way. STAY AWAY FROM RUBY TUBES, no matter how temping the price is. Where are you located? |
| ______________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:07pm - blue ""] i thought the XXX (like a lot of peaveys) are fixed bias? |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:13pm - Bradsauce ""] I'm over in Cleveland Circle. I've got some local references if you'd feel more comfortable talking to them first @BLUE - I'd guess you're right, but fixed bias is a bias arrangement, as apposed to cathode biased. Usually they'll have a little trim pot inside the amp. Otherwise, you're swapping resistors to get the right current (like in old Fenders)! Dig it? |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:18pm - largefreakatzero ""] Yeah, I'll probably pass on the assistance -- I'm in NH -- but thanks. I thought XXX was fixed bias as well. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:20pm - Bradsauce ""] Right on, man. If you're ever in Boston and need some amp help, drop a line. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:35pm - Bradsauce ""] The schematic for the XXX is available here, there's definitly a bias adjustment. Page 6, part VR19. Like I said, it'll most likely be good to go if you just slap the new tubes in, but if you've got the extra cash, have the bias checked. |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 17,2010 3:59pm - largefreakatzero ""] Thanks for all the info -- I'll keep that schematic for future reference. |