achtung[views:3277][posts:19]__________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 7:27pm - heimdall ""] quit burning whole cds your poor asses a few songs is fine but burning whole cds then not buying the album is the most homosexual thing in the world. people complain on why bands cant tour so often , simply because so many metal heads these days rather just burn cds off thier friends then buy it. buy the damn cd if its good its only 15 fucking bucks!!!!!!!!!! downlaoding whole albums is even more deviant then a jewish gay fucking a black mans horse yargggg me matey i mean if oyu were in a band would you like it if people were ripping you off |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 7:53pm - Dissector ""] What crawled up your ass. Valid points but did you have to bring it up and sound like such an asshole about it, there's no reason for this thread. For the record, people can rip off Dissector all they want. |
| _________________________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 9:00pm - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] We put our whole old demo on the internet for a while, and even told people they could download it if they wanted. Then this kid asked if he could burn 100 copies for friends and we said if you want to burn that many feel free. at some point you make more money off of shows and merch at shows that is more irreplicable than discs. If you look at the breakdown of The Rolling Stones gross earnings over band life time, they the least off albums sales. |
| ________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 10:02pm - hoser ""] Hey peckerwoods.... NEWSFLASH: You ain't all that big yet...the way to get big is to get your music out to as many people as possible. The more you're heard, the quicker the scenester assholes will run out and buy your CD. If you're in it for the money...get out of it. You'll only die a poor musician. Get your music out there...hell give it away. Anyone who wants a FREE Hand Choke Neck CD...email me and once we're dona having them made...I'll send you one....hell I'll even cover the postage. Lemme know when.... www.hand-choke-neck.com |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 10:11pm - heimdall ""] no of course im not talking about local bands or unsigned bands im talking bands that are already big in europe and asia but make nothing on cd sails in america, then they dont come here because they dont think they will be able to pay the bills of touring a country with a small fan base buy buying cds it tells the label company that they will be able to let that band tour hell once my band makes a cd i will be giving them away to anyone I think would like it Im just saying I hate it when people burn whole cds then dont buy the cd, I personnaly cant stand looking at aburned cd sitting in my player I rather have the real thing |
| ______________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 10:34pm - honor4death ""] buying the cd helps the band out more then your think, its true that the label gets the most or all of the cash for the cd itself, but the song writer also gets paid by song sold off every cd, so lets say you buy a cd with like 34 tracks on it of some goregrind band or something...they get like $.10 per song sold. so if they wrote all 34 songs they make $3.40 for every CD sold. they dont get that if you download it, also i think its less then $.10 but i dont remember, all i know is the more cds they sell the more money they have, as long as they are the ones that write there songs. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 10,2004 11:36pm - Abbath ""] i'm for buying cd's i refuse to get burned albums from other bands support your bands!!!! |
| __________________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 4:31am - TheGreatSpaldino ""] i dont know about anyone else here... maybe rustedangel too... but i get albums about a month before they come out, on mp3. i burn them, listen to them and decide if i like it enough to buy. if i like 2 oe 3 songs only, then i wont buy the cd and i will look at the burnt cd as if i borrowed it from someone and recorded the 3 songs ontop a tape or something. the fact no one buys bu ys albums much anymore is because popular music fucking sucks. the only bands that are hurt gby loss of record sales are the ones on on mtv and major labels. metal bands dont make much from their cd sales, especially if they are death metal bands. hell, cannibal corpse makes all their money from touring. touring + shirt sales = the main income for any extreme band. its funny too, because extreme metal bands take in about 50% of the money from the cd sales while pop stars take about a buck or maybe a little more per cd. again, as i said, any act makes the most of their money from touring. its a fact. and again, if the cd is worth buying, i will buy it... if it isnt, then the fact that i downloaded their album is null and void because i wouldnt have bought it anyway. |
| _______________________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 5:31am - coldnorthernvengeance ""] fuck all ya'll |
| _________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 12:41pm - retzam ""] Well, Spaldino, you do make a good point, but, this final statement: "if the cd is worth buying, i will buy it... if it isnt, then the fact that i downloaded their album is null and void because i wouldnt have bought it anyway." That is kind of false. If the second situation is the case, then the only reason you're not buying the CD is because you heard it already and are not into it. There's still a small chance that if you didn't DL it you would have bought it. Maybe the reviews wouldn't have been so bad to keep you from buying it; maybe you would have heard one or two of those three songs that you liked and ran out and bought it. The fact is, that many many more albums would be sold if it weren't for downloading and burning. Anyway, here's my standpoint on the matter. I, personally, don't like burned albums. I have in the past burned a lot of albums, but I almost always eventually go and buy them. There are only a few complete burned albums I have that I havn't bought yet: Dimmu Borgir - Spiritual Black Dimensions Dimmu Borgir - Death Cult Armeggeddon Porcupine Tree - Lightbulb Sun Porcupine Tree - In Absentia Ensiferum - Ensiferum Primus - Pork Soda (I havn't even listened to this yet, someone burned it for me a while ago) I do indeed plan to buy all of these in the future. I just like having the actual thing. I am guilty of burning albums for my friends. But it is usually just to spread some good music around. Plus, sometimes they go out and buy it anyway, like this kid who after borrowing 5 of my Maiden albums to rip them onto his computer, he went out and bought a bunch of Maiden albums (some that he had ripped, others that he hadn't). But I guess the only person that I burn quite a few albums for is the guitarist and vocalist in my band. He is kind of in a shitty situation with no money and no car and no way to get to a job, so he can't really get one. So me and my drummer burn a lot of discs for him because he really needs them (he is the main writer for our band at this time, so if he only has a few albums then the music isn't going to be that unique). So every once in a while the drummer will burn him 5 or 6 albums and just give'em to him and I will burn him one or two others. Well, that's my 2 cents. |
| _______________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 1:04pm - armageddonday ""] I'm in a weird situation here as I own a record store, so obviously I'm not really into the burning CD thing. First is for the band and the label, considering how much work/money/time a label puts into a CD/band, just for that I will buy the CD and not download it. The band will gets it's copies not matter what (if they work with actual copies instead of royalties), then won't get as much royalties though. But as it's been said, bands make money on the road selling merch...well that is if they don't have a complete fucked up tour. Being a retailer, what can I say? Nothing that I can do here. Personnaly, I won't burn shit, I'll make a dub tape of some of the CDs we already have in the store, so I can listen to it until I find it used (I mean, I cant keep everything) or if I find it on vinyl I'll buy it (or keep it). I noticed that a lot of metal heads burn the copy first, then after a while just come buy the CD, mostly cause of the whole package (covert, art, lyrics etc). My 2 cents. |
| ________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 1:37pm - Abbath ""] what i do is buy the albums then burn them for driving in my car and stuff, so i can keep the original at home and it won't hurt the band, i could care less what happens to mainstream bands but it bothers me when really good bands get ripped off |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 1:41pm - Dissector ""] I download the bands tracks first then buy the cd. Burnt cds are no fun. I'll only download whole albums by old Slayer and Morbid Angel (because I like their music but not the members and don't want to give them money) Other than that I buy all my cds. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 1:46pm - Dissector ""] Oh yeah, I do have cd-rs of demos and bootlegs though. But they don't count because its not like the band can possibly make money off them anyways. |
| __________________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 2:18pm - TheGreatSpaldino ""] retzam said:Well, Spaldino, you do make a good point, but, this final statement: "if the cd is worth buying, i will buy it... if it isnt, then the fact that i downloaded their album is null and void because i wouldnt have bought it anyway." That is kind of false. If the second situation is the case, then the only reason you're not buying the CD is because you heard it already and are not into it. There's still a small chance that if you didn't DL it you would have bought it. Maybe the reviews wouldn't have been so bad to keep you from buying it; maybe you would have heard one or two of those three songs that you liked and ran out and bought it. The fact is, that many many more albums would be sold if it weren't for downloading and burning. thats not very true, because i like to hear the whole thing before i buy. thats just how i am. i borrow cds or have a friend burn it for me, listen to it, and if its the 3 song case, then i wont buy it and i will keep the burned copy. if a band is good enough, they will get my money. besides, if you see an album in the stores, the band already made their money from that cd because that store bought it from the label at a wholesale price so they could sell it at a price that is almost twice what the store paid for it. too many instances to arise that can make both sides of the burning thing look good and it will jsut go on and on and on. burning isnt terrible, most people that burn cds are... and fucking cheap. i havent bought a cd in a while because im absolutely poor and the only way i can listen to new albums is by burning them. also the abilty to have so much music readily available has changed my life forever. i am 9000% more musically diverse because of mp3's and burning. if i had to only buy cds and not really listen to them before hand, i would probably be just finding out about Death and Dream Theater and Kamelot and stuff. so again, there are too many pros on each that eclipse the cons so its pretty much a stalemate (thats oly because of lame legality issues though, i personally think burning is great, as long as those people go to shows, thats all that matters) |
| _______________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 2:40pm - armageddonday ""] TheGreatSpaldino said >> ....that store bought it from the label at a wholesale price so they could sell it at a price that is almost twice what the store paid for it.>> Just so you know, the mark up is much lower than 100% and the wholesale price for CD (metal) is rarely below $9. |
| __________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 2:56pm - heimdall ""] on the note of cds being the lowest maker of income. in america when we do not buy cds from froiegn bands they can not tour here because they do not know if they will make money off of merch. and tickets, so you see its a double edged sword , domestic bands can tour america without worrying about cd sales, but forgien bands rely on the info from cd sales to see if they can support a tour over hear for example, Cob sales have doubled in america , and as we take notcie they have toured here twice this year, same thing with dimmu they are touring again in america |
| _______________________________ [Jul 11,2004 3:16pm - eddie ""] i don't have many burnt cd, i think i have one or two out of my 70-100 cd collection. but you know its hard to find out about new/good metal bands because of the lack of metal on the radio. sure theres rttp and harder faster but those are only once a week. Because of that i think thats why alot of people burn cds, as a way of spreading the good music around, that isn't being done on the radio like the so called "popluar" types of music. |
| ________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 3:33pm - retzam ""] TheGreatSpaldino said:retzam said:Well, Spaldino, you do make a good point, but, this final statement: "if the cd is worth buying, i will buy it... if it isnt, then the fact that i downloaded their album is null and void because i wouldnt have bought it anyway." That is kind of false. If the second situation is the case, then the only reason you're not buying the CD is because you heard it already and are not into it. There's still a small chance that if you didn't DL it you would have bought it. Maybe the reviews wouldn't have been so bad to keep you from buying it; maybe you would have heard one or two of those three songs that you liked and ran out and bought it. The fact is, that many many more albums would be sold if it weren't for downloading and burning. thats not very true, because i like to hear the whole thing before i buy. thats just how i am. i borrow cds or have a friend burn it for me, listen to it, and if its the 3 song case, then i wont buy it and i will keep the burned copy. if a band is good enough, they will get my money. besides, if you see an album in the stores, the band already made their money from that cd because that store bought it from the label at a wholesale price so they could sell it at a price that is almost twice what the store paid for it. too many instances to arise that can make both sides of the burning thing look good and it will jsut go on and on and on. burning isnt terrible, most people that burn cds are... and fucking cheap. i havent bought a cd in a while because im absolutely poor and the only way i can listen to new albums is by burning them. also the abilty to have so much music readily available has changed my life forever. i am 9000% more musically diverse because of mp3's and burning. if i had to only buy cds and not really listen to them before hand, i would probably be just finding out about Death and Dream Theater and Kamelot and stuff. so again, there are too many pros on each that eclipse the cons so its pretty much a stalemate (thats oly because of lame legality issues though, i personally think burning is great, as long as those people go to shows, thats all that matters) Spalding, you didn't really disprove my statement. The fact that you keep a burned CD if it only has 3 good tracks on it just enforces what I was saying. Forget about burning for a minute, suppose it doesn't exist. Now, suppose you have some money to get an album. You hear 2 pretty damn cool songs off a disc from a friend or whatever. If burning just didn't exist, you wouldn't know that you don't really like the rest of the album, so you'd probably just buy it. That's what I've been saying. People that "just download some songs to see if they want the album" are missing the point: back 10 and more years ago, this couldn't be taken advantage of, so more people would blindly buy albums. That is the reason that downloading has affected record sales so much, not just these people that only download and never buy. But, I do agree that this argument really is a stalemate, simply because of the immense amounts of both pros and cons. Oh, and Heimdall brings up a really good point about the importance of supporting foreign bands. All of us here on this site have some favorite foreign bands that never tour here (I know I do: Arcturus, Ensiferum, etc.) and this is one of the main reasons. |
| _______________________________________ [Jul 11,2004 5:08pm - armageddonday ""] The problem with overseas bands not coming over is also that the US is very difficult to tour (DIY band and non-DIY). Long drives, no food a lot of times, no booze, no place to crash, no breakfast. This is not what they are used to in Europe, you always get fed over there, and some kick ass food too. In the US, even bands with rider will get pizza (if they actually get fed - not really the ideal diet when you play every night). I think the US needs to be a bit more on top of the hospitality if we ever want to see more European bands coming over. |